Gen Z is Rewriting Civic Life
The Exchange: A Conversation with Rachel Janfaza of the Up and Up
Our Chief Research Officer, Sarah Stamper, sat down with Rachel Janfaza of The Up and Up for The Exchange, our interview series featuring influential thought leaders, organizers, advocates, and others who are shaping the future of civic life.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Sarah Stamper: Welcome, Rachel. To kick us off, can you share a bit about your work at The Up and Up?
Rachel Janfaza: When I started The Up and Up, it was just a newsletter, but it’s grown to be a research and media organization focused on Gen Z. We do regular listening sessions with young people across the country and have a community of Gen Zers that we tap into for insights. We also do qualitative reality check surveys with our Gen Z community. This group has grown organically through conversations, interviews, listening sessions, and then their broader networks. We always ask our community members to share the opportunities with their classmates, their friends, their family, cousins, siblings, and anyone they think would want to share their point of view. There’s a lot of hard data we are told about Gen Z. We see headlines every single day about their politics, the way that they’re thinking about work and education. At The Up and Up, we try to go a level deeper than just the hard data and find real personal stories that humanize the numbers in the headlines.
Sarah Stamper: Given you’re a member of Gen Z and work to uncover their stories, what do you think is most understood about Gen Z, and what has been oversimplified or misconstrued in the media and the public discourse?
Rachel Janfaza: The biggest misconception that I’ve sought to push back on is this idea that all of Gen Z thinks, acts, and votes the same. Gen Z is not monolithic. In fact, there are varied experiences within the Gen Z demographic. This is a wide range of young people across the country from different backgrounds. This is the most diverse generation in American history. And depending on how old you are within the generation of Gen Z, when you were born, you grew up in a very different context.
The biggest misconception that I’ve sought to push back on is this idea that all of Gen Z thinks, acts, and votes the same. Gen Z is not monolithic.
Last year, I started to write about the theory of the two Gen Zs, the idea that our generation was split down the middle by the COVID-19 pandemic, and also by the different technologies that we’ve grown up with. We see this evolving every single day with AI and the way that it’s changing so rapidly. I’m on the oldest cusp of Gen Z, born in 1997. My childhood, my K-12 education, and even my college and early career experience are so different than someone who is either in middle school or high school today. So I really look at that framework as a way to try to understand where different parts of Gen Z are coming from, depending on these shared experiences that we’ve had while growing up.
Sarah Stamper: You brought up AI, which is so top of mind and prominent in the news right now. We’re finding in our own data at Murmuration that young people have real concerns about what AI means for the future, that they are more likely to say that AI is “very bad” and much more likely to say that it’ll have a negative impact on the world. What are you finding when you talk with Gen Z and young people about AI?
Rachel Janfaza: There’s also been research from Gallup and the Walton Family Foundation showing that AI makes Gen Z anxious, and that’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about, too. In my research and conversations with Gen Z, there’s a range of perspectives and opinions on AI, and how it’s changing things, but the truth is, no matter who you are, no matter how old you are, AI is changing your life in one way or another. Being the first generation to grow up with that is really daunting.
In my research and conversations with Gen Z, there's a range of perspectives and opinions on AI, and how it's changing things, but the truth is, no matter who you are, no matter how old you are, AI is changing your life in one way or another.
I think Gen Z is expected to usher in new technological changes and a technological revolution, and has always been at the forefront of that. And to a certain degree, Gen Z is leading AI, but it’s also disrupting their adolescent experience, their workforce development, their education, the way they think about their relationships, and their own identity. This is also a generation that has a strange relationship with technology because they rely on it so heavily during COVID, and it has also disrupted their life in so many ways when looking at just social media alone.
Now, to add AI on top of that is scary for some, but it is also seen as a massive opportunity for others. When I ask about AI in our listening sessions, depending on the point that someone is at in their education or their career, we hear a range of responses. But for the most part, for college students or those who haven’t yet entered the workforce, and high schoolers even younger than that, they’re constantly being told that this tool exists but there’s a whole sort of wild west of rules, or lack thereof, of when they’re allowed to use it, and whether or not they will be judged for using it. And yet they’re also being told that it’s going to change everything, so if they don’t know how to use it, they’re going to be left behind. That creates a really complicated dynamic where young people are both being taught that they should know how to use this, but also they could be punished for trying.
The strongest concern I hear is about work and about feeling like they’re not really being set up for the changing work environment. There are a lot of students who fear that the college education that they’re spending so much money on and work so hard to get, that degree will be outdated the moment they get it, if it’s not rooted in AI. I think there’s also a conversation being had about education and human skills that will never be replaced by AI. No one knows really what it’s going to look like even a year from now, let alone five, 10 years from now. I think it’s warranted for there to be a lot of anxiety and a lot of concern, but also at the same time, a feeling of excitement that there’s a lot of good that comes from AI, too.
Our research also shows that young people are using it for navigating relationships or how they feel about themselves, whether that be through AI therapy or conversations they’re having with chatbots. Sometimes it might seem a little bit strange to have a relationship with a chatbot in that way. And there’s been some horrible stories about tragedies that have occurred because young people are relying on this technology to fill the void that a human should be filling. But I think there’s also some positives that can come from that, and more access to mental health resources and support that should and can be explored as well.
Sarah Stamper: One of the themes that we see in Murmuration research is how differently Gen Z thinks about and defines belonging. It’s much less about institutions. It’s more about identity, peer network, and digital or third spaces. How are they talking to you about belonging, community, and purpose?
Rachel Janfaza: This is something I’ve been asking a lot about recently, and it gets at a root problem that a lot of young people in our community have identified, which is the fact that it’s hard for them to find a place where they feel they belong. I think that’s the root of many of the crises that we see within Gen Z, whether it’s the loneliness epidemic or Gen Z’s compassion recession.
Gen Z tells me that when they feel they do belong, it’s in third spaces—a space that’s not school or work or home but somewhere else where they feel that they have community. I did a project over the summer focused on identity, and the most salient part of people’s identity for Gen Z and Gen Alpha was often rooted in religion or familial backgrounds. I think that’s because that’s where they feel they belong, and that’s where they drive their identity from. Young people also get this from fandoms, sororities, fraternities, sports teams, theater clubs, and online communities–but the big one is religious or spiritual groups. They want to be part of something bigger than themselves, and in a world that is moving at the speed of light, whether it’s the way AI is changing so quickly or the rapid speed of internet culture, I think it’s hard to feel like you belong anywhere for more than just a second, let alone a long period of time. It’s really the relationships and the camaraderie that come from those third places that I think are what is driving young people to them.
Sarah Stamper: Murmuration research consistently finds that almost everyone agrees that no political party fully represents them these days. You’ve highlighted the record-high share of Americans and young people identifying as political independents. In light of this, what do you think organizers should be thinking about in terms of how to engage with young people? And if a political party is a very weak hook, what’s a stronger entry point? Should they be thinking about issues or local problems, relational trust, or something else?
Rachel Janfaza: Young people are so frustrated with both parties. But it’s actually an opportunity for new leaders and organizers to reach them because they just want to feel heard. Part of why Gen Z has disaffected from both traditional parties is that they don’t feel like either party is listening to them.
Part of why [young people] have disaffected from both traditional parties is that they don't feel like either party is listening to them.
We’ve seen the mistake that politicians have made in thinking that just by showing up on social media or on some new media platform and going on a podcast is like this magic fix that’s going to suddenly get Gen Z to want to engage with them or to vote for them. But young people can tell when someone is just trying to get someone to vote for them and read right through it. They grew up online, so they have a very high bar of what it means to be authentic. They’re also craving leaders who are actually blending that online engagement with in-person ideas, strategies, and tactics.
I think a lot of young people have felt gaslit by both parties, and that leaders don’t address the actual root cause of the problem. They just kind of sugarcoat it or pretend it doesn’t exist, or will say that something that a young person can very clearly see is happening or feels in their own everyday life, whether it be something like the cost of living or the way that their community is being discriminated against. They can see these things happening in their day-to-day lives, and then they hear leaders and elected officials pretend like that doesn’t exist or it’s not happening, which is frustrating and alienating.
Organizers can circumvent that by addressing young people’s lived experiences head-on by acknowledging the problems they face and offering solutions that are rooted in local issues. We are seeing young people talk very passionately about their local politics and about issues that are present in their day-to-day community. At a time when the national political conversation is so divisive and unrelenting, rooting themselves in the local allows young people to feel more agency and a pathway to be involved because the macro-national level can feel overwhelming and like it doesn’t apply to the individual. But things that are happening in individual communities without a doubt make a difference in their day-to-day lives.
At a time when the national political conversation is so divisive and unrelenting, rooting themselves in the local allows young people to feel more agency and a pathway to be involved because the macro-national level can feel overwhelming.
Sarah Stamper: A cornerstone of the Gen Z experience is growing up in a world where every major event is captured, it’s shared, it’s remixed, and it’s sometimes distorted online. How does this shape younger people’s interpretation of reality and their trust in institutions?
Rachel Janfaza: I’ve written a lot about the two Gen Zs and the fact that Gen Z 1.0 was kind of leading the forefront of these movements for social justice, whether it be climate strikes, the March for Our Lives, or protests for racial justice during the summer of 2020. There are a lot of similarities right now to 2020. I also wrote about Gen Z 2.0, which retracted from that. There wasn’t much activism during the Biden years. Being MAGA was more counterculture. There was a shift to the right amongst Gen Z. Now we’re seeing that young people are starting to protest again by leading massive school walkouts against this administration and against the actions that ICE is taking in communities across the country. The thing to note about Gen Z’s relationship to all of this is that it’s very fluid. They don’t see one political party as being better than the other. They see both as problematic, and they’re willing to speak out against both. They’re willing to share when they disagree with what elected officials and leaders are doing.
The protests that are happening now in response to some of the actions of this administration or that ICE is taking aren’t something that Democrats should celebrate. I think that Democrats have a lot of work to do to earn young voters’ support in November. And the fact that there’s frustration doesn’t necessarily mean that that frustration will work in their favor.
But what it does indicate is that young people are going to speak out and stand up for what they believe in. And especially when that’s happening in their local community or when they feel such close proximity to it because they watch it on their social media feeds, and they’re paying attention and they’re going to do something about it, no matter what party is in charge.
Sarah Stamper: We are coming up on America’s 250th birthday at a moment where pride and belonging are fragile. It’s especially true for young people who associate America with instability and unmet promise. What kinds of concrete changes would move the needle for this generation?
Rachel Janfaza: The number one issue that young people face, and we’ve been hearing this for years, is the cost of living and the fact that their life feels so unaffordable. I think that’s part of why we’re seeing young people flip-flop back and forth between political parties and not want to be a part of either political party because they don’t feel that either party has their best interests in mind when it comes to the cost of living. If elected officials can help with solutions, with lowering costs, or at least address the fact that they understand that young people are feeling this way, I do think that could move the needle. In certain states, actions are being taken to make education more affordable or to make sure that there are more pathways to education or a good-paying job. A lot of this happens on the local level, and it makes a big difference in young people’s lives.
The number one issue that young people face, and we've been hearing this for years, is the cost of living and the fact that their life feels so unaffordable.
Sarah Stamper: In this conversation, we have talked about any number of pressures that people are under—cost of living and the economy, feeling politically unmoored, and feeling lonely or in search of third spaces. While these things directly impact Gen Z, they are also shared pressures and experiences for people of many different generations. Where should we start to build cooperation between generations and foster more cross-generational understanding?
Rachel Janfaza: It’s all about mentorship. A lot of generational fractures could be healed by younger people having an ally in an older person, and vice versa, an older person feeling that they have a companion who’s a bit younger than them, who can help them through the challenges they’re facing. This can be mutually beneficial, and I think that there’s so much wisdom that young people can gain from older generations who have been through this before.
If you’re thinking about the economic headwinds that Gen Z is up against, having a millennial mentor who can talk about what it was like to be in the 2008 recession and to graduate during that time and find a job, or lost a job, or faced the housing crisis that ensued—all of that is so relevant to someone in Gen Z right now. Similarly, with all the global conflicts we experience today, talking to someone older who experienced Vietnam and hearing about what that was like, there’s so much that can be learned.
When it comes to belonging and the crisis of loneliness, it’s not isolated to Gen Z. I think all of us feel it when we live in virtual realities. Having a mentorship relationship can allow people to feel like they belong and that they have a point and purpose, and purpose is something that we all crave.
When it comes to work, if AI is changing the workforce, none of us knows how to handle that. I think it’s really important that more of the managers and CEOs, and people in positions of leadership, can help their Gen Z employees understand where they can add the most value. At the same time, I think that Gen Z can and should be willing to ask their managers, CEOs, and mentors for guidance, for help, and for advice about where they can add the most value. Mentorship is a great way to foster that intergenerational dialogue and companionship.
Sarah Stamper: Murmuration research shows that hope is surprisingly persistent in communities and in particular, Gen Z is holding on to that hope. What gives you hope for the future right now?
Rachel Janfaza: We similarly hear that young people are feeling hopeful despite listing a range of concerns that they have. A lot of it comes from the community and from each other. I recently asked, “What in the country right now gives you hope?” in a reality check we did, and one of the answers was, “Americans. I believe Americans are brave and fundamentally good people, even if there’s a faction among us that is lost and angry.” I think people see hope when Americans come together. We also heard a lot about unity. Young people give other young people hope. People also said the midterms give them hope. And there’s religion.
"What gives me hope is...when we have two people with very diametrically opposed views who are willing to have a back-and-forth dialogue."
What gives me hope is in our listening sessions, when we have two people with very diametrically opposed views who are willing to have a back-and-forth dialogue, and they don’t have to come to some agreement. We’re not singing Kumbaya, that’s not really the point of what we do. The point is to show that there are varying viewpoints and that you can still have a productive conversation, and it doesn’t have to lead to chaos, division, and hatred, and that there can be respect even for people who have different viewpoints. That’s what gives me hope.
Sarah Stamper: It was a pleasure to talk with you more about your work and how you’ve championed elevating the voices of Gen Z and increasingly Gen Alpha. I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us.
About Rachel Janfaza
Rachel Janfaza is the founder of The Up and Up, a research, media, and strategy firm focused on Gen Z. Her written work has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, Vox, The Free Press, Glamour, POLITICO Magazine, Vogue, Teen Vogue, Elle, Cosmo, and Bustle. And her on-air analysis has been featured on CNN, MSNBC/MSNOW, CBS, C-SPAN, NY-1, and WNYC Public Radio. She is also a contributor to The Bulwark.
About Sarah Stamper
Sarah Stamper has been a neuroscientist for over 15 years, specializing in the quantitative analysis of behavior and systems. At Murmuration, Sarah leads a team of data and scientific experts building cutting-edge data and insights that empower partners to better understand, engage, and mobilize their communities. She also authors State of Us, a series that explores what America is feeling, thinking, and moving toward together, for Murmuration’s Substack. Before joining Murmuration, she led product and data science at Helm, a civic technology company. She also previously led research at the Art & Science Group, providing valuable data and insights to K-12 institutions, higher education, and nonprofit organizations, shaping their approaches to community engagement and strategic planning.
Murmuration is a nonprofit working to transform America into a nation where everyone can thrive. We organize a network of community-focused partners and equip them with the insights, tools, and services they need to help communities build and activate power more effectively. murmuration.org